!!!Problems with MSI MS-6168!!! please use AMI BIOS only

[-HoNY-]

Hi, we have tested MS-6168 with 8MB V3 onboard, originally with AMI Bios.

Katoo has flashed some boards from AMI to the AWARD bios (downloaded from MSI.com)
and tested 3 boards. It looked stable (instaled Win98, played some glide games, ran some benchmarks...)
But after one week of testing:
first: board not working
second: IDE2 not working
third: still working

We don´t know where the problem is yet (award bios may not be suitable for OEM Packard-Bell boards).

Czech diskusion about this problem is here:
http://4um.ocguru.cz/showthread.php?t=48774
viewtopic.php?t=1425

//4th July 2006
Clockgen datasheet - supported FSB page 6
total of 16 combinations (with PIII 866 works 14)

Memmory buffer:
datasheet

Differences between i440BX and ZX

[Thrakath]

Hi!
You have any further success?
Is it possible to insert another Bios Chip to make a hot flash backup of the original Packard Bell Bios? Im really interested to flash the msi Bios to get >100Mhz Frontside Bus and options like KB Power On

Greetings from Voodooalert/WM Country Germany
Tobi

[ps47]

well,it seems like there are some hardware differencies between the MSI reference board and the packard bell boards.the only way how to get 133 FSB support is the MSI BIOS,but thats a great hazard (I have another dead motherboard that was flashed with the MSI BIOS).right now we dont have any idea if it would be possible to hack the latest packard bell BIOS to get 133 FSB support..

[Thrakath]

Hi!

Flashed 1.3 half an hour ago and it runs fine. No Problems and all drives recognized. Will try higher FSB next night! Maybe the Problems u had were not bios related (For me there is no real proof). Those Boards are old and if there are f.e. badcaps or something like that would lead them to death.

Good night
Tobi

[ps47]

..the problems seem to arise after some time of use (from few days to few weeks).anyway,let us know if something happens..

[wizzy]

Unfortunatly I don't possess any ms-6168 but as far as I follow the discussion here it seems to me the troubels are caused by higher fsb which is not allowed by the original BIOS. Check capacitors around the cpu slot - maybe rather all the capacitors on the board - whether they're OK or not (inflated). Maybe someone of the hardware-gurus (Hony? Ren?) would be able to check power circuits on the board...

[Thrakath]

I chatted with Hony yesterday afternoon and he found that there is one big cap from a Taiwan factory that used this wrong electrolytic mixture. Maybe thats the fault. I can´t believe the Bios thing till my own board dies . Is it possible to read out temps/Voltages? Which Program to use? Maybe the MSI Bios gives some extra voltage?!

Anyone knows how much power draws a PIII500 compared to a Celeron 1Ghz? Afaik its the same...

Greetings from WMCountry

Tobi

[wizzy]

I don't know if this board provides such readings but if so, Speedfan or Motherboard monitor should work.

PIII 500 consumes 20W, celeron 1Ghz (coppermine) about 40W. 1GHz Celeron Tualatin is less hungry, consumes about 20W.
(now we can see why are Tualatin-based Celerons so popular - they provide twice as much calculations while they consume the same power and have the same size of L2 cache)

If you are not sure which core is indside your Celeron, it is quite easy: Tualatins dispose of a heatspreaders, while Coppermines don't have them.

[Thrakath]

Its a coppermine! Maybe ill try undervolting to save some Watts and take care of the caps! The speed limiting factor is the v3 anyway. Ill try speedfan tonight. MB didnt recognize the board and found no sensors .

Tobi

[Thrakath]

still runs fine...lowered cpu core voltage to 1.7V (still testing if its stable) and added a 12cm Fan cooling the voltage regulation system. Will try V3 overclocking next days. Did every Voodoo3 have 7ns RAM?

[-HoNY-]

... Maybe someone of the hardware-gurus (Hony? Ren?)

My English is on "Lama level"

Its a coppermine! Maybe ill try undervolting to save some Watts and take care of the caps! The speed limiting factor is the v3 anyway. Ill try speedfan tonight. MB didnt recognize the board and found no sensors .

Tobi

This revision not support HW monitor

still runs fine...lowered cpu core voltage to 1.7V (still testing if its stable) and added a 12cm Fan cooling the voltage regulation system. Will try V3 overclocking next days. Did every Voodoo3 have 7ns RAM?

All board using a 7ns Enrontech

[ps47]

..updates,see the first post

[Thrakath]

Hi Guys, especially ps47 (Hope we meet in icq one time we arent afk:-) )

My Board still runs great. 3rd day now. Soldered HDD-LED Pins now. Played with friends 4 hours together last evening.
@Hony whats the consequence of setting wrong fsb? Freeze and then a) it didnt save to bios and restarts with old fsb or b) it doesnt startup and you have to clear cmos to get old fsb?

Cu Tobi

[-HoNY-]

...Soldered HDD-LED Pins now. Played with friends 4 hours together last evening...

I soldered all pins

http://download.pc-centrum.net/MSI%20MS-6168/alpha/IMG/
look here
if CPU 66FSB default then 4 settings between 66-83 are available
if CPU 100FSB default then 4 settings between 100-133 are available

added some settings for more stability

this alpha BIOS is available here:
http://download.pc-centrum.net/MSI%20MS ... %20-HoNY-/

[-HoNY-]

ps47 will translate to english (edit: translated.I did it in a hurry,please dont kill me ):

I'm a dope .I have been thinking that the AWARD BIOS is causing all those weird errors.I have wrote that:

1) BIOS on MSI.com is not suitable for PackardBell mobos
A: is not 100% compactible
2) the FSB a PLL settings (circuits on the motherboard that sets the frequency) are completely differrent
A: the settings are identical,even in the same order,the only thing that cannot be set is 153MHz FSB


I did some changes with the AMI BIOS editor, BIOSes work fine,but I need to sort them out before I release anything.

the REAL reasons why the mobos stopped working:
1) random errors (seems like the mobos are form differrent series). OR
2) they are buggy boards that havent made it through the quality checks OR
3) bad or low quality parts - low quality Chhsi caps see Badcaps forum
- the mobo is not feeding the CPU correctly CPU (PIII 866 gets very hot)

point 3 is most probable I have changed most caps (using hi quality ones like Sanyo, Rubycon, Nichicon) the mobo is stable, and I§m going to chage the MOSFETs as well..

[Thrakath]

hi!ps47 can u plz translate honys last post?

I got some new problems with 1.3 MSI.

1.) The Probs with setting the 133Mhz FSB it hangs while bios saving...Hony is your newest Version on the server and stable? Maybe i will switch back to Ami. Also other FSB Settings are incorrect. 112 shows 117 and so on!

2.) Got an USB-Hub with two Gamepads connected. It prevents POST. When disconnecting, posting runs fine!

Greetz
Tobi

[Thrakath]

Hi Hony!
Tried your C Bios last night. From my opinion its worse than the Ami 1.3. Setting other FSB than 100 is shown correct by post screen, but doesnt change the Clockgen. In CPUID it is always 100Mhz and Benchmarks underline the same.
Also my Ghz Celeron is always recognized as a PIII-800.
While posting the board says the Nvram is bad and resets it and i have to press F1 because the timer is bad.
But the USB-Hub now shuts down with Windows.

Greetings from germany

[-HoNY-]

Hi Hony!
Tried your C Bios last night. From my opinion its worse than the Ami 1.3. Setting other FSB than 100 is shown correct by post screen, but doesnt change the Clockgen. In CPUID it is always 100Mhz and Benchmarks underline the same.

While posting the board says the Nvram is bad and resets it and i have to press F1 because the timer is bad.

I might have find problem All seting are reset?

Also my Ghz Celeron is always recognized as a PIII-800.

Cache size in benchmarks is correct?
incorect name is problem with old "cpu microcode" in bios. I don't know how to update. But i read about it on other forums, it look simple. I will learn it.

But the USB-Hub now shuts down with Windows.

It´s pasive or active hub?

[Thrakath]

Hi Hony and friends!

Back in Black! Im still running my board on 1.3 Msi Bios. I disconnect the usb hub everytime for boot up and shut down. minor problem. i think its an active one but i have no power supply connected (->passive).

As u know i´m running n64 emulation on that machine and i need to get some more fps now . There are two possibilities: o/c the 1ghz Celeron. Will try later that day OR i´ll buy a tualatin 1.4ghz with adapter. But i´m not sure the board can handle 1.5V Voltage for Vcore! U have any ideas?

thx Tobi

[DOC_ZENITH/XAN]

I have tried it with Tualatin 1ghz (max oc 1.5ghz), but my experience is bad.

When I tried to run this board with Tualatin, it booted up ok, but both L1 and L2 cahce seems to be offline. I checked the bios, everything ok, but L1 is still not operational. Without L1 cache , the procesor speed is eqal to 386DX, so it is unuseable. I replaced it with Pentium 2 - everything OK.

So It seems that this board is Tualatin incompactible. The voltage is not the problem, my tualatin runs great on 1.5v, 1.8v and 2.4v - yes, 2.4v without any dmage to CPU, tested on many mainboards. The problem is L1 cache. I have not tried all the bioses yet..... I will test it soon.

(Sry for my bad English)